Friday, August 8, 2008

August 8th discussion topic

In Chinese lore "eight" is associated with prosperity and good fortune, so it is only fitting that the eighth day of the eighth month of the eighth year was selected as the opening day of the Beijing (Peking) Olympics.

But all is not of one heart, one body in the one China...

From Kyodo News, via The AP, via Breitbart

Key Points:

The KMT (Kuomintang, or Nationalist Party, of China) has always been far too willing to link arms with the Communists if they thought it served opportunity, and they are back at it again now that a KMT government is running Taiwan. The modern Olympics have always been a political event (see: 1936; the non-year 1940; 1980; and 1984 for just the simplest examples). This time they have been awarded to the PRC, for good or bad.

Open Ground:

Please feel free to cheer or boo the Beijing Olympics, but do give reasons. There is another tack regarding the specific article cited, too: You know, Taiwan wasn't always China and even when it was, it often was a rather loosely grasped addition to the Middle Kingdom... Will having the games in Beijing, fulfilling one of the great goals of Chinese Nationalism in the last century, move Taiwan closer or farther away from (re-)unification?

27 comments:

Purr said...

another quick comment-- this one is for sarcasm--

between the smog and earthquakes, let's hope the athletes even make it to tell the story!

KC-Fresno, Ca. said...

Wow - I was born on the eighth day of the eighth month. Does that mean that now I am going to have good luck and be rich!!!

I am hoping our athletes wipe up all of the medals. They truly deserve it.

L.Douglas Garrett said...

off-topic
@KC

re: "...born on the eighth day of the eighth month."

well then, Happy Birthday! And yes, according to lore you are a most fortunate child. Better check your Chinese Zodiac though to see if good fortune = wealth in your case.

...and now back to our regularly scheduled event.

Karl Reisman said...
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Karl Reisman said...

Olympics? ...total apathy...but then you know I have zero interest in most sports that dont involve firearms...

Karl Reisman said...
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Mr. Bill said...

@Karl,

Then you ought to be watching for the Modern Pentathlon which involves shooting as one of its five combined sports. Granted, it's target rather than interactive shooting...

L.Douglas Garrett said...

Modern Pent is being held on August 21 and 22. Japan has one athlete on the Men's side.

Nine classes of target shooting events are scheduled. Counting both women's and men's divisions make 15 in all.

Official List of Events 2008

oddly, "Communist Biathlon" wasn't on the list... ((wry grin))

Purr said...

Malkin wrote about patriotic banners being banned from the Olympics-- July 15- (to stamp out pro-Tibet) but this seems to have extended itself out more-
"However, Games organisers have extended the ban to include material supporting national teams."

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/07/15/patriotic-banners-banned-from-china-olympics/

How many billions did the Chinese spend for the Olympics? especially on security?

Makes it hard for me to get into the spirit of this--

Purr said...

I know little about Taiwan and China--
Wasn't there some ruckus about the Hong Kong Consensus?

Purr said...

and then some arguing going on about this-

TAIPEI, Taiwan — A senior Taiwan official has rejected China's attempts to change the name under which the island will compete in next month's Olympics, striking a discordant note to the two sides' recently improved relations.

Vice Chairman Liu Te-shun of the Mainland Affairs Council in Taipei on Thursday said "Zhongguo Taipei" _ a name in the Chinese language that strongly suggests that Taiwan is part of China _ "is not acceptable to us."

A month from the Aug. 8 Olympic opening ceremonies, spokesman Yang Yi of China's Taiwan Affairs Office said that "Zhongguo Taipei" is just as valid as an Olympic designator as the previously used "Zhonghua Taipei."

"Zhongguo Taipei" means "Taipei China" and uses "Zhongguo," the name China calls itself, implying Taipei is a part of China. "Zhonghua Taipei" uses "Zhonghua" _ a more ambiguous word that applies to a deliberately undefined Chinese nation.

The dispute _ arcane to many outsiders _ goes right to the heart of the battle over Taiwan's identity, which has been fought over by the sides since they split amid civil war in 1949. It also casts a shadow over recently improved economic ties, in the form of the first direct flights between the old foes in nearly six decades.... (The Huffington Post)

So how did this end up? Zhonggou Taipei or Zhonghua Taipei?

L.Douglas Garrett said...

@Susan

I hope you can see Chinese characters displayed on your view of this...

Actually the official listing shows this: TPE - 中华台北, and then notes "Chinese Taipei" in English. I *think* this reads as Zhonghua Taibei(in pinyin)

I know 中国台北 is Zhonggou Taibei (pinyin)or "Chinese (re:country) Taipei" in English.

Zhonghua (pinyin) is also the rendering of 中華, "Chinese (re:culture)" in English, if I recall correctly.

-more re your other questions shortly-

L.Douglas Garrett said...

re: Patriotic Displays

Yes, the PRC tried to ban all displays. Would have made the playing of national anthems at the medal ceremonies problematical...

They did order a very strict interpretation of the restrictions on individual athletes displaying any patriotic or political indications other than that of their team uniforms, though. That's not a new rule, but the harshness of prohibiting a winner from "wrapping himself in the flag" of his country is a bit more than has ever been enforced.

and yes, it is tough for me to get into anything like the vaunted "Olympic Spirit", too.

re: Consensus

The 1992 Consensus is technically non-binding as it was reached by semigovernmental organizations, but the PRC and many other countries (including the U.S.A.; shamefully in my opinion) continue to treat "One China" as a fact. The difference between the KMT on Taiwan and the CPC (Communist Party of China; GovPRC) on that issue is nuance only. The DPP and the bulk of the current Opposition on Taiwan, of course, disagree with the entire principle.

Purr said...

Question---

Is Joey Cheek still ousted from China? Because he doesn't agree with China's policies with Sudan-He is trying to help the kids out in Darfur. China sure is scared easily! By one person!


Kendra Zanotto was also denied a visa-

I will say the Olympics in China is definitely "intertwined with global politics!"

I just saw on the internet a Czech Republic woman just got the gold for the air rifle shooting-- *karl*

@LDG--
those characters ? Now explain what was meant by these, por favor-

L.Douglas Garrett said...

chinese characters = chinese writing

Some computers won't display them, but since this is HTML, I was hoping you could see them for comparison.

I gave pinyin pronunciations and English translations for each.

p.s. yes, J. Cheek was not permitted into the country. Yes, the PRC is afraid of even one person.

Purr said...

I see what you are saying in reference to the characters-- country as to culture- gotcha!

Consensus-- open to China's and Taiwan's own interpretation!

L.Douglas Garrett said...

@Susan

re: interpretations

So long as you are clear on the more basic fact that the island of Taiwan, also called Formosa,: is not ancestral China; that the bulk of the "Chinese" population there only arrived in 1949 (or descended therefrom); has been in and out of China's possesion over the last 400 years; and has only been recognized as clearly Chinese territory (but of the Republic of China government) since the Treaty Taipei [April 28,1952] and included in the terms concluded in the Treaty of San Francisco.

Note on that last item: Seperate protocols since then have *indicated* Taiwan is Chinese territory, but in strict terms (like the abandonment of Sakhalin and the outer Kurile Islands by Japan) the lack of a clear resolution of status makes for legitimate conflict on this matter.

Purr said...
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Purr said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
L.Douglas Garrett said...

Moderator Action:

Comments (2) moved and deleted respectively, by request of poster.

Purr said...

I just read some relative to a coach for the volley ball team was stabbed by some Chinese freak-- I guess he wasn't wearing american "apparel."

Even if these attacks are rare, I would still be nervous if I were there!

Purr said...

to me this is interesting-

By Mark Magnier, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
August 7, 2008
BEIJING -- The bane of many human rights groups these days is a growing number of computer viruses, data-stealing Trojan horses and other malicious software being routed from China.

Although activists said they couldn't prove the Chinese government was behind the assaults, their sophistication suggests an adept attacker with extensive resources.

The Dream for Darfur activist group said it was alerted by a congressman's office a few months ago that its website was infecting visitors in what is known as a cross-site scripting attack. The matter has been referred to the FBI...

Purr said...

reading about the San Francisco Treaty or the Treaty of Peace with Japan

The document officially renounces Japan's treaty rights derived from the Boxer Protocol of 1901 and its rights to Korea, Formosa (Taiwan), Hong Kong (a British colony), the Kuril Islands, the Pescadores, the Spratly Islands, Antarctica and Sakhalin Island...

Since the Treaty of Taipei did not come into force until August 5, 1952, almost 3 months after the San Francisco Peace Treaty came into force, whether the treaty of Taipei conclusively addresses the dispositon of Taiwan is disputed.

Becoming clearer to me-- the unresolved conflict

Purr said...

answer to your question--

I am booing at China! Not the Olympics== just China!

Who has a dollar figure on what China spent on the Olympics?

Meanwhile-- pollution in the air and their rivers-- and the people being displaced to accommodate for the Olympics-

THUMBS DOWN!

Purr said...
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Purr said...

I see Bush is not making some people angry in China because he is on this human rights kick--

Does he think he can change this by making these speeches?

Karl Reisman said...

Modern Pent is being held on August 21 and 22. Japan has one athlete on the Men's side.

yeah... but will they be Televised?

Scott